Josh Thomson and Big John talk MMA Mount Rushmore, the GOAT and more

Josh Thomson and Big John talk MMA Mount Rushmore, the GOAT and more

alright guys you're here with Josh Thompson Big John McCarthy um we have decided to do this little weekly quick show that we're gonna start talking about basically just a couple little topics like four quick questions fifteen twenty minutes you know maybe a little bit more than twenty if it goes into that because you Big John likes to talk you don't know that so we will you know but there's a couple things I think that's that's on everyone's mind so we'll talk a little bit we're not gonna really get into the fights from the weekend this is more just overall stuff that you know that is kind of a buzz around social media or just the buzz in the industry in the MMA community whether it be UFC you want to see Bellator or any other fight companies that are out there we can talk about you know a certain stuff but the one thing John and I have always kind of talked about what we've been traveling on the road is John who's on your Mount Rushmore oh man because they've Mount Rushmore for MMA uh you know I look at it a little different than some people because I think you gotta be smart about who you put in there there's no way that you could have a Mount Rushmore for MMA and not have the guy that was the first one that brought everyone's attention to it the guy that was taking on bigger fighters the guy that was choking people out when it was not popular to be using grappling hoist Gracie's got to be on that Mount Rushmore no doubt in my mind he deserves it he should be there and I would put him in that position the next guy had put Wow George st. Pierre has got to be on it too and when you look at a guy that has had a career the way he has winning multiple titles and different weight classes his reign once he established he he won the title he lost the title he got that title back and then the rain that he established throughout it and the way he changed the fight game he brought it into the next level I got to put George st. Pierre on the list Fedor Emelianenko is another one what he did in Pride that the wind streak that he had for that long and how he did it he's gonna be on my Mount Rushmore and you know it's so hard to say the other guys but that everyone's in there I kind of want to put you know the guy who created the whole thing our Davy he deserves it if it wasn't for him coming up and making it happen it never would have happened so he might be on my Mount Rushmore too two guys from UFC one but if I was gonna say another fighter it would probably be Anderson Silva would be on the list right there Randy Couture would be someone that I would have a lot of want for that and now Daniel Cormier is another guy that I'm looking at if he can win this fight against steep a and if he ends up taking on John John's definitely if he wasn't you got a look at Daniel Cormier look at the championships he won the Grand Prix with Strikeforce the light heavyweight title the heavyweight title Daniel Cormier has brought himself into that position all right so I feel you own a couple of obviously I have a heart I have a hard line with people that have been busted for cheating so for me Anderson Silva is off the list yeah well that's why I had yeah I say I'd like to but what he what has happened in the last part of his career is what does take him off of the list yeah you're right I agree with you so for me what where do you so for me I agree with you I agree with you on hoist I agree with you on GSP um I'm not too familiar as much as much like with our Navy and I understand the history behind it all and stuff but I don't know if that's kind of what I was looking for but I mean for you I understand why your reason your reasoning behind it I'm thinking more in terms of fighters I don't know I know yeah so for me I would say hoist GSP how do you fit Frank Shamrock in that mix you know and the problem for Frank is this I mean Frank had a run that was phenomenal and and you look at what he did and he was the at the time it was the middleweight champion of the UFC and undefeated takes his belt puts it down on the ground and walks away and you're looking you go hey he had some incredible fights he had an incredible fight you know outside of the UFC when he first john'll Ober and he fought him in Hawaii and you go back and you watch that fight and everything that happened and you then you watch the progression of how he changed as a fighter and what he did for the sport in a lot of ways you know he brought Strikeforce up on his back because he was the main fighter for Strikeforce at the time that he was the name and he can kind of help Scott Coker established that it's just that Franken in a lot of ways had fights that he never fought that top guy he fought the top guy at the time back at UFC 22 when it was Tito Ortiz but then as he got longer in his career he was fighting guys like Phil Baroni who had fought you know had fought in the UFC beaten some guys but never was fighting the top guys at the time and that's that's the difference that's why the Georges st. Pierre he fought every top guy because he was a top guy every number one contender was taking him on and so I look at that when phaidor was fighting in Pride he was fighting all those guys that were you know the Nogueira's and the crow cops he was taking on all those top guys that's what I'm looking for Daniel Cormier taking on all those top guys okay you know you look at the guys that he's faced that's what you have to have and in my opinion for the Mount Rushmore now I'm not talking all of Fame yeah because Frank Shamrock absolutely deserves to be in the UFC's Hall of Fame he deserves that no doubt hands-down Klenner percent that was the difference for me for that Mount Rushmore it's just the quality of opponents throughout the career okay so now you just touched on that I'll just give you another name though I can agree with you on the Frank Shamrock thing but I'll give you another name BJ Penn well yeah look at what we're talking about the quality of opponents the quality of opponents doing things BJ's for everybody okay take a look at the record yeah yeah when you take a look at the record that's what tends to take BJ out of the equation at one time I would've told you BJ was the most talented fighter that I had seen as far as having the whole package he was that guy and he took on anybody think about man you know he was going against lyoto machida at light heavyweight heavy weight I mean it was crazy the stuff that BJ did yeah and you could look and say BJ is absolutely one of the best fighters in this sport has ever seen at a certain point in his career you could take John Jones take a look at the list of fighters that John Jones's beaten and there's no doubt that John Jones is absolutely one of the greatest fighters if not the greatest fighters there's ever been but do I think he belongs on that Mount Rushmore I think that Mount Rushmore in my opinion is not just what you do in the cage and sometimes what you do outside of the cage that's why Daniel Cormier and him what he does with kids and the taking a time to do wrestling and all the things that he's doing for other people that's part of what puts you on that list yeah so for me I keep BJ on there because like Muhammad Ali had a lot of crappy fights at the end of his career okay and we still look at him as being potentially one of the the best you know people talked about him being the best of all time whatever it was but they the hype and all the things that came around with him and all the things that he did to help bring box into that next level for me BJ did all those things he left when he was the champion he started another organization with this family was the champion there but then also brought in guys that the UFC couldn't sign talking origami fought the best who everyone considered the best light weight in the world was at the time was go me they thought people were saying BJ walked right through him I was there at that show they put their own money on the line he chal changed the sport and bring it to what the level is now he made the UFC rewrite their contracts based on the fact that he left while he while he was the champion then he came back and sure he had some losses to GSP and to you know some other guys but the thing is is he was never the biggest guy we thought you just brought up the lyoto machida thing I will I think always put him on there because he beat Matt Hughes when people thought Matt Hughes was unstoppable you know and then after he beat Matt he left and went and beat you know and went and beat hen's old Gracie hot regal Gracie in and talking to her he go me outside of his and did his own promotion built him up to be a superstar there and then he fought lyoto machida who was what 220 pounds in k1 and honestly it was a great fight I mean I thought it was a great fight had some now obviously towards the end of his career we're looking at all the losses he's strung up but um he never has someone to shied away from a fight I think in the fighter he's a true fighter deep down inside he still is and we've seen some of the troubles he's had you know recently fighting outside but it's who he is he's a fighter and I think for me I have to put him on there I don't want to go so much based off of like you were talking about what you do outside the cage as well but all the things you've helped do to get the sport where it is now I mean there's four gyms in in Hawaii that have his name on it UFC gyms to say BJ Penn on it I mean he's that fighter that's done all the other things to elevate not just the UFC but the sport itself and so I put him on there I could I see your argument with the Frank Shamrock deal um I for me if a door would go on there as well because obviously in the heyday of Pride and he didn't seem like someone who was on steroids and we know a lot of the guys that he was fighting they were you know when I fought over there they talked about the contract said we do not test for steroids so you knew that they weren't tested for steroids you know and that that to me I think the for him to do the things he did against all those top-level guys Mirko at the time was knocking everybody out with head kicks and you know and uh you know and and Nogueira I'm big knowledge those guys were they were just walking through guys sobbing everybody beating everybody up but I thought um I think for sure if a door so I mean realistically I've got like you said hoist GSP BJ Penn phaidor you know I'm missing probably one but I think I'm gonna leave that slot open for right now because I the or reason why I say that right now is because people talk about John Jones people talk about Anderson I'm gonna I'm just gonna I'm gonna be very upfront and real and does not leads me into my next question is for me right now I'm gonna leave that spot for khabib because the whole thing is is to do something you should you know but he's 27 and oh and he's also 27 Oh in the hardest weight class in the world in in MMA it is the hardest weight class and I'm not trying to be biased it's just true it's the harder it's the hardest weight class to be successful in and the fact that he's 27 and Oh in the hardest weight class and not only that people talk about John Jones being the most dominant fighter there is but let me just tell you he hadn't lost one round until he took a round off against Conor McGregor that says something about how dominant somebody is and he also he's the most dominant in the hardest weight class there is John Jones sure is dominate but he's lost rounds not only is lost rounds his performance the other night when I watched him fight Santos I thought he lost I thought he lost one two and five now I mean I could see the smile you thought maybe otherwise but otherwise yeah I I thought he'd lost I thought and they're linked to now after coming out and hearing he tore his MCL his PCL and his ACL and was able to keep fighting and hadn't had a great performance and still had John somewhat kind of backing up at moments I had him winning one two and five just that was me and I'm not arguing with it with the decision I had him winning but I'm not gonna sit here and say oh he's blew him out of the water this is a robbery I don't think that but that's the way I scored the fight it's okay and you know I agree with you on two of those rounds yeah in my opinion but no doubt it was a closed round but I thought Santos won the first round of that fight yeah I definitely thought he won the fifth round yeah the second round is the one that's not in the end I've gone through that round I just just taught of course and we went through it and I went through it minute by minute with people and there's a real big difference there's a point where John throws a kick and and Santos goes down but he goes down because he's off balance yes he goes down trying to get away and he's got a bad knee had already at the time but he does go down in the kick does land but it's the elbow that he lands John lands a left elbow that you can see it blasts Santos and Santos changes as a fighter for about 40 seconds of that round because of that elbow that's the most that's the most persuasive blow of that round and that's the reason John did win the second round and it's sometimes it is just that one blow and that is why John was able to hold on to his his title and it was a close fight it was a good fight and I give Santos so much credit fighting on a knee that is torn up and you know it is anybody that's been part of the sport has had injuries and if you've ever blown out your knee and I know you have look at it to stand on something that is just you you take a movement and we know when he was kicking with his left leg I was saying okay that's look at it if you've got that bad leg you can still kick with it because you can't pivot on it but when he would throw a kick with his right leg had no pivot on his left leg I'm going oh it's got to be killing it yeah it screams it was impressive that he stayed with it I was just very impressed with he didn't give up he didn't give in and he was trying to the very end he didn't even talk to his corners about the fact that it was hurt in between rounds II there was Dave kept going to the corner seeing what if he could say what was wrong never once did he say like hey my knee I think everyone knew but they didn't bring it up I was pretty impressed with that as a matter of fact that was probably one of the things that impressed me the most but to get back to a good one of those things I was wondering though after that because of that is I wonder did he injure it in training before the fight he knew it was injured and just went out because he had to make that fight happen anyway yeah yeah because otherwise he wouldn't end it up he would've ended up having surgery and being out for a year it wasn't guaranteed a title shot when he came back who's to say didn't get the knock you know and get the win and then go on sabbatical for a year whatever get it his knee healed I agree I'm there I think better that better that way that he fought anyways it's unfortunately hate to have that you're 35 years old you hate to have your title shot something like that happened during your title shot you know that sucks to go back to the khabib thing though is I was just one of the is what's your take on that your take is for me with John Jones he's people talking about him being the most dominant fighter is it because he's flashy er which I think it is easy flasher he dispatches the people but like to me wasn't very wasn't very um against Anthony Smith and now against Santos he wasn't very compelling to show that he was he's that guy he's remember Anderson Silva kind of started doing the same thing towards the end of his career kind of like moving the hands around doing a lot of movements but didn't really throw punches and John to me in that fight didn't fight the same way so I put could be more ahead of DC because could be right now is undefeated the heavier weight class and not to mention the 205 pound weight class it's not the most stacked let's say the 185 of the 205 and the heavy weights it's there those are weak divisions they're weak you know you have the top four guys five guys and they're sure they're a couple guys come in every once in a while and explode on the scene but they're not the most activision yeah you could say that and i agree with you when you say if you're gonna say is 155 more stack than light heavyweight or heavy way absolutely there's just more guys of that size that fit in that class and what khabib is done is incredible but khabib has won one title that he's had it for how many fights yeah true true two fights yeah all right he's got to do more and you are absolutely right I will tell you and all the fights that I did with khabib he dominated every opponent he faced he is incredible you are absolutely right he has that ability to make that that position on that Mount Rushmore he has that ability and he can follow through with it because it all comes down to what you're talking about people are starting you know look at there's little blueprints that are put out by guys on how to beat somebody and look at some of these guys are starting to figure out John and how he controls distance and everything nobody has figured out khabib yet they all know what he's gonna do they just can't figure out how to stop it and they can't figure out how once he gets on top of them that's when they learn oh my god he does this in a different way than anybody I've been training with and khabib has that ability I just don't look at it like he's gone far enough he had a lot of fights before he came in the UFC he's been phenomenal ever since and like I said every opponent that I have ever been in there with him he dominated and that's some good opponents you know we're talking guys that are fantastic fighters have a lot of wins and he made him look average yeah so he could be that guy you're right yeah I mean I'm just saying yeah I understand that in this day and age people that win multiple titles they're trying to that that's kind of what we're putting that Mount Rushmore do you have two titles do you potentially even look at the fight for a three it's true but I think if he finished his career it 155-pound division which I don't think he will if he finishes at 155 and he finished his undefeated 32 an O or 3500 or whatever I think he's gonna be hard not to put him on that Mount Rushmore yeah you you could be absolutely right I look at it this way and when it comes down it people talk about like you were bringing up Ali as the greatest of all time was Ali the greatest boxer of all time no no let's be honest he's now okay was he one of what was he someone that that elevated the sport of boxing absolutely but if you take a look at guys that you're gonna say possible best of all time Sugar Ray Robinson hmm look at lightweight champion welterweight champion middleweight champion and should have won the light heavyweight title but was dehydrated after winning 14 of 15 rounds against the champion and could it go out for that last round okay now you're talking about guys that are that greatest of all time and look at how many titles in different weight classes you have yeah yeah very true very true the other thing is I noticed that they inducted this week they they did the induction for arm Diego Sanchez and Clay Guida and what I want to get your take does it kind of diminish the the inductions in the Hall of Fame's while the fighters are still active yeah you know it there's two sides to that they don't deserve it not they don't deserve to be in the Hall family I'm not I'm not saying that I'm just saying but you know it's exactly what you're saying you can hold off on that fight there's a lot of other fights too yeah that you could say hey those guys that was a Hall of Fame fight those guys deserve to be there and I really am that person that looks and says I like the way the NFL kind of conducts their Hall of Fame in that a you have to be retired for five years before you can go into that Hall of Fame because we don't want an active player being in the Hall of Fame we want that to be for guys that played in this league played in this league at the highest level and now they have retired out of it and we want to honor you with that I kind of like that the UFC hasn't done that really you know with fighters they have put fighters many times while they are fighting into the Hall of Fame you know the real problem for the the UFC Hall of Fame if you're looking at it is you know there needs to be more people involved with who actually goes in it outside of people that work for the UFC because you know there are there are some people out there that deserve to be in that that are not in it and it's because of personalities or something like that and that unfortunately personalities should not be part of food is going in a Hall of Fame it should be about the quality of what you brought to the sport what you brought to that promotion that's what it should be so I would rather see them wait on guys that are currently fighting because it's a little weird to say a Hall of Fame fighter and he's still fighting yeah very true very true the Lashley this is the one thing that I wanted to talk to you about is arm because you would know this the most is the Mazda all and Ben Askren ko you obviously saw it oh yeah oh yeah I actually looked down at my phone for a split second I looked up and the fight was over I was so mad I had to watch the replay like what um will the Commission get involved too or if let's just say Mazel all was to file a petition saying that he wanted the actual arm time to be looked over to maybe even make it reduced even more because the fight was only what two three seconds but the stoppage was I wouldn't say late but the stop was a little bit longer because the ref was behind the action so he couldn't get in so will the Commission or anyone try to what if he tried to file saying he would like to have the knockout be two seconds instead of the five seconds well the one thing you gotta consider is this the fight is stopped by the referee yeah okay not by the action of a fighter going down all right mate we have a fighter go down now it was absolutely clear with then was going down that he was an unconscious fighter and he hits the ground he stayed unconscious he got hit with a couple more and Jason Herzog did as good a job as anybody could have done in getting there because especially in that moment Jason starts that fight while his first thing is to move backwards get out of the way of the fighters he's moving backwards this happens and he's moving forward as fast as he can I was impressed with how fast Jason got there and I was with Jason over the weekend and we were talking about that fight and he said you know look at Mazda at all in the back was asking certain specific questions about with where he could put his hands in a given situation he was got to throw a knee he's gonna throw a lot of knees in this fight can I put my hands here can I do this can I do that so Jason had an idea that he was looking to throw knees against Ben he just didn't quite know that it was gonna be the first and only one who was gonna end the fight but you know Mads but all could go to the commissioners aook and you look at this but I honestly don't think they're gonna change that tie on you know what it doesn't matter no I know I know that that fight there's no one that's gonna get anything faster I have seen ones where you know Duane Duane Ludwig had that record in the UFC and they actually did change his time from being nine seconds down to six based upon what you're saying so could Nevada look at it and alter the times the Commission could alter the time and it could end up being possibly four seconds maybe even as few as three yeah but I still don't think anyone's gonna beat that record I think that would stands you may tie it you ain't breaking it I still think that Bob Cook has the fastest one Bob crazy Bob Cook has the fastest one I think in MMA history obviously not in the UFC but the guy that ran across and Bob just stepped in with the stiff palm and the guy buckled over and the ref stopped so I think I want to see the guys sprinted you know back in the day guys would run across doing whatever and the guy sprint ahead and Bob just stepped in with the with the straight iron palm to the face and the kids buckled over and the ref just stopped it right from there it was the whole fight I gotta say was maybe a second and a half too you know look at the way Ben came out on that when he came out fast and George did this almost he acted like nothing and they kind of spread it forward they came together pretty damn fast to get that you know action going and man George just did a incredible job of landing that perfect switch knee it was beautiful I say I've said this I don't know how many times I've said this though I said but you can't take you can't change a wrestlers natural reaction to do what they do and for fighters if you leave your feet their natural reaction is to try and grab your legs we saw it with Aaron Pico we saw it a little bit with Henry cejudo and mom our eyes too he threw a couple of jumpin knees and they landed on Sahu toe same thing happened here their natural reaction is to put their head down and try and gap the legs and sometimes it leads to a takedowns but sometimes at least the highlight reel knockouts yeah exactly yeah and you know you look at the what happened with Ben and did he make mistake yeah look at ya Ben has wrestled for his whole life he's an incredible wrestler no one ever taught Ben to put his eyes down towards the floor yeah wherewhere is that head and I supposed to be always at your opponent now made that simple little mistake and that's what cost him because you know you got to keep your eyes on your opponent then you'll see it maybe you can move your head it's gonna hit an area that's not gonna hurt you as bad but man you got to hand it hand it's a core game Iseman all what a win and what a way to do it yeah I mean I'm gonna do to see what they're gonna do with him next because of the arm Coby covington fighting Lawler does that put him back in the title shot if it being next if he wins Maz at all just beat till and beat Ben Askren who is undefeated like the other both kind of right there so I mean I know it's let's not get our panties in a bunch and let's see what happens but I mean big potentially could be right there lined up to fight each other or fight for the titles next so interesting stuff kind of we're kind of a weird situation when you look at that whole thing because Covington Lawler and Mazda that all used to train together that's weird that's strange yeah but ship should make for some good fights they know each other alright are you when you go to Thakur Ville I am taking off Wednesday morning Wednesday going in either for the fighter meetings and then we have the fights Friday we got some really good fights coming up so it should be a lot of fun dr. bill always has the best shows they've got some great shows man it's such a unique place with a incredible little arena that they have as far as the way it's set up and the fights always tend to be fantastic they're always fantastic they're alright but what am I gonna keep you long ago you're on East Coast time thanks for standing up and staying up and tell the wife you said hi and we will send you over the links in the videos and we'll see if you can just post them up and we'll get it all going sounds good brother you take it easy man and I'll see if I don't see you before a Connecticut I'll see you next month thinking of it alright brother oh man bye have a good show


  1. Ali beat guys like Liston (twice), Norton (twice) Foreman, Frazier (twice), Quarry (twice), Lyle, Shavers and Patterson (twice). I’ll put these wins against anybody’s any day of the week. The guy is the greatest because of what he did inside the ring. I never grade on what a fighter did on the outside means nothing in my opinion.

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